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  1. #1

    Doubts from the Takfiris and Extremists


    I would start a series of questions about doubts / shubuhaat from the Takfiris and extremist, if it is ok???

    I want not make Fitna, thats why I ask to beginn.

    Let me know if it is ok

    Maybe some brothers can check the translations and look for the correct answers on it with evidences.

  2. #2

    As salaamu 'alaykum, I am sure there are enough rebuttals from the scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah against such doubts already, if you want to mention them one at a time, inshaa'Allaah, the members of this forum will be able to assist you.
    -== abu.iyaad =-

  3. #3

    They say, "the ahadith with "kufr duna kufr" are not authentic connect to Ibn Abbaas". They say "Hishaam bin Hujayr" is not trustworthy and imam Ahmad and other would say, that the narrator is weak.
    The first of their major doubts is to question the authenticity of what is narrated from Ibn 'Abbaas (radiyAllaahu anhu) with respect to the verses in Surah al-Maa'idah. That these verses are not to be taken absolutely and unrestrictedly is the ijmaa' (consensus) of the entire Ummah, and the manner in which the neo-Khawaarij try to cast doubt upon this ijmaa' of the Ummah by finding some defects in the isnaads of some of these narrations is similar to what is done by the Jahmiyyah from Ahl al-Kalaam who try to isolate certain statements narrated from the Imaams, such as Imaam Maalik, on the subject of al-Uluww, where there is some speech regarding such narrations, as a means of trying to cast doubt about what the entire Ummah is already agreed upon that Allaah is above his Throne. Similarly, the neo-Khawaarij try to cast doubt upon the statement narrated from Ibn Abbaas, even though similar statements are authentically narrated from his students and it is something the entire Ummah is agreed upon anyway.

    The Imaam, al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee has reported in his ‘Taareekh’ (10/186) that: A man from the Khawarij was entered upon al-Ma’moon who said to him, “What has led you to oppose us?” He replied, “An aayah from the Book of Allaah, the Most High.” Al-Ma’moon said, “And what is it?” He replied: “And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, they are the Disbelievers” (5:44). So al-Ma’moon replied to him, “Do you have knowledge that this is a verse that has been revealed [by Allaah]?” He said, “Yes”. Al-Ma’moon then asked, “And what is your proof?” He replied, “The ijmaa’ (concensus) of the Ummah”. So al-Ma’moon replied, “Then just as you are satisfied about their consensus that this is a revealed aayah, then also be satisified about their consensus regarding its explanation.” The man then said, “You have spoken the truth. May peace be upon you O Ameer ul-Mu’mineen”!

    You can look at this PDF Article that deals with this subject specifically, and you will see Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen and other scholars refuting and rebuking these neo-Khawaari for their paucity in knowledge.

    However, their argument goes beyond this, so even if we establish the acceptability of these statements, the argument moves on to another issue which is that this tafseel of the Salaf regarding these verses is not applicable to those who "rule by secular laws, or change, abolish, nullify (etc.) the Sharee'ah." This is another category of doubt and the answer is found in many of the statements of the Scholars, but for now, the above PDF will address your question about the saying of Ibn 'Abbaas (radiyAllaahu anhu), and the essence of the matter is that along with all the other narrations from Ibn Abbaas and his students, the statement "kufr less than kufr" is hasan due to supporting narrations, and is acceptable and the Ummah has taken it with acceptance after them and there is no need to mention the scores of statements from the Scholar through all the centuries to this day of ours who have affirmed this tafseel.
    -== abu.iyaad =-

  4. #4
    Assalaamu alaykum,

    Some laypersons and youth enthusiastic for Islam but not well grounded in knowledge of the religion, they say the like of:

    "But these people (the khawaarij, terrorists, and the likes) they are the only ones standing up for Islam and the Muslims, and defending the Muslims. So why do we insult them, why do we call them 'terrorists' and 'khawaarij' (renegades), why do we not assist them or teach them instead?"

  5. #5

    As for the doubt:

    "But these people (the khawaarij, terrorists, and the likes) they are the only ones standing up for Islam and the Muslims, and defending the Muslims. So why do we insult them, why do we call them 'terrorists' and 'khawaarij' (renegades), why do we not assist them or teach them instead?"
    Not for one day has any Kharijite, Takfiri ever aided Islam and the Musliims, just as it is said about the Ahl al-Kalam, "neither Islam did they aid, nor the Philosophers did they destroy," the same applies to them in it's own way, "neither Islam did they aid, nor the rulers did they remove". It is a sunnah in Allaah's creation that the Kharijites will never gain ascendancy, rather every time they appear, they will be cut off, until the Dajjaal appears in their midst, as per the authentic hadeeth. Once it becomes clear that a group or faction have combined the traits of the Khawaarij, it is obligatory upon every Muslim to submit to the Prophetic texts about the Khawaarij and the ruling upon them. Let's get some stark realities from some of the Shaykhs (and you can read more in this article here):

    Shaykh Salih al-Suhaymee said:

    Secondly, placing the dots on the letters by naming the people of this ideology with the names appropriate to them, for they are Khawaarij (Renegades), in fact, they are more evil than the Khawaarij of old, because in addition to their Kharijism and and their deviant ideology, they added the application of Machiavellian philosophy, which is that the ends justify the means. So it is not sufficient that the preachers (sermon-givers) and writers wander around the sanctuary, or that they suffice with just making hints, or mere rejection (on its own). Rather, it is necessary to expose the lords of this ideology, and explaining the legislative ruling upon them, in clarification of the true realities, and out of warning the Ummah in general and the youth in particular, from being deceived by this ideology which is taken by its people from visitations on the Internet, or from the verdicts of the foolish who crouch in the caves in mountains and who have perhaps been encouraged and nourished from the direction of the Freemasons and the Rotary and others from the Zionist organizations or what resembles them.
    Shaykh Rabee bin Haadee said (about the slogan of neo-Kharijites "social justice"):

    And we have observed lessons from reality and from history, and there is no one reflecting and no one taking admonition except those upon whom Allaah has shown mercy and from them [these lessons] are: That every person of fitnah (tribulation, trouble), and every caller to misguidance, raises with all strength, the slogan of fairness and justice and equity.

    The revolution (led by Abdullah bin Saba') against the righteous caliph [Uthmaan (radiallaahu anhu)], rather against Islaam, was in the name of justice. The revolution of al-Mukhtar bin Abee Ubayd, the heretic, was in the name of justice and equity. The revolution of Abu Muslim al-Khurasaanee was under the slogan of justice and stopping oppression (injustice). And the Freemasonic movements, they carried the slogan of "justice", "equality" and "freedom". And the Communist revolution was also under these slogans.

    And all of them are deception, and deceitful (lying) slogans, may Allaah expose those calling with them, and uncover their veils, and humiliate them in this life before the hereafter.
    And Shaykh Salih al-Suhaymee also said:

    Is there a Muslim in whose heart there is an atom's weight of faith who supports the tribulations against the Muslims in the likes of this time?!!! By Allaah, no! By Allaah a Muslim does not support this, and nor does a Muslim justify it. And sufficient is this faction with the faction of the Khawaarij that a side of them allied with a side of the renegade Khawaarij and with the Communists and with others besides them amongst the rebelling, renegade factions. So beware, and take caution and be fair and perceptive with regard to what is being stirred against Islam and the Muslims. Be intelligent, and do not be sentimentalists who are taken by sentiments, supporting scum behind whom is the Zionist Mossad and behind whom is world Freemasonry, and behind which is world disbelief, drum-beating (against Islam) from near and from far. Do not be deceived by the claims of that artificial enmity between the Zionists and those groups (the Khawaarij), for they are friends, ever since the time of Abdullaah bin Saba' until this day of ours. Thus, the Muslim is shrewd, intelligent, he should not be deceived by this idle chatter, and nor by these fibs and deviations, "But the evil plot encompasses only him who makes it" (Fatir 35:43)
    Refer to this article for other similar and related quotes.

    History gives us plenty of lessons and examples and to understand the reality of the Khawaarij of our times, we can again point to the Ahl al-Kalaam (Jahmiyyah, Mu'tazilah, Ash'ariyyah etc.) who thought they were defending Islam against the atheist philosophers by using the very tools of the atheist philosophers. All they did was to open the door of evil for those atheists to attack Islam even more. The same is the case with today's Khawarij, we are speaking here of Hasan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb and all the movements they spawned in the 20th century that are based around the premise that all governments and rulers are apostates and there is no Muslim society found in any place and that snatching the rule and khilaafah is the primary obligation to impose social justice from the top down, and all of their political activity (populist revolutions, violent revolutions, parliaments, party-politics, demonstrations, rallies, unity with all and sundry etc.) is founded upon Western philosophy of change and ideas of social justice. All they have done is to clothe it with an Islamic garb and to lay down religious and textual arguments to support their ways - just as the Ahl al-Kalaam have done, and continue to do, to justify the basic foundations of their creed.

    Have they aided Islam and the Muslims? Not for a single day. They are simply a mechanism and tool, just as the Ahl al-Kalaam are a mechanism and tool for non-Muslim Philosophers as an entry point to attack the creed of the Muslims from an academic point of view, these Kharijites are a utility from a geo-political point of view to facilitate the plundering of land and its resources.

    Links for more related and background reading:

    Finally, and this really ought to be sufficient for the one who seeks the truth, once it is established that these people combine the traits of the Kharijites of a) takfir on account of what is major sin and b) revolt against the rulers, then there is no doubt that the ahkaam in the ahaadeeth of the Messenger (alayhis salaam) fall upon them, namely that they are "dogs of Hellfire," "they speak with the best speech of creation" (as in impressive, god-fearing speech)," "if I was to reach them I would slaughter them like the slaughtering of Aad", "Every time a faction amongst them appears they will be cut off until the Dajjaal appears amongst them" and so on. While one can hardly point to a single benefit these misguided people have brought to the Muslims at large, the Project for a New Communist Century is advancing well thanks to them and their figureheads.
    -== abu.iyaad =-

  6. #6
    Is there a source in which all ahadeeth dealing with the Khawaarij have been assembled? Inshallah, this would be beneficial for quick reference (particularly so with explanations included), and for giving naseehah.

    Jazakallah khair.

  7. #7
    Assalaamu alaikum,

    Here's a pdf that has a number of narrations with simplified explanation as it relates to the khawaarij of our times.

    Islamic Condemnation Of Terrorists, Hijackers, & Suicide Bombers “The Brothers Of The Devils”

  8. #8
    This was posted on the old Salafitalk forum:

    Verification and Explanation of 2 ahadeeth quoted by the Shia and Hizb ut Tahrir to justify their ideology

    The eighth question of Fatwa No. 8225

    Q 8: The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever dies without knowing the Imam of his age, will die as those who died in Jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic time of ignorance)," and "whoever dies without pledging allegiance to an Imam, will die as those who died in Jahiliyyah." What is meant by this Hadith in the context of our own time, and how can we understand and apply it?

    A: Concerning the first Hadith we doubt its authenticity by this wording.

    The second Hadith is related by Imam Muslim in his Sahih on the authority of Nafi` (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said when they deposed Yazid and declared their obedience to Ibn Muti`, Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) came to him. `Abdullah ibn Muti` said: Prepare a pillow for Abu `Abdul-Rahman to lean on, but `Abdullah ibn `Umar said to him: I did not come to sit, but to tell you that I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) saying: One who withdraws his band from obedience (to the Amir) will find no argument (in his defence) when he stands before Allah on the Day of Judgment, and one who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (to an Amir) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahillyya (will die as a pagan).

    The Hadith means that it is not permissible to rebel against the ruler unless he commits major Kufr (disbelief), as narrated in the authentic Hadith. Moreover, the Ummah (nation) should choose a just ruler to take good care of its affairs and preserve its rights.

    May Allah grant us success! May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions!

    Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'

    `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz
    `Abdul-Razzaq `Afify
    `Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan
    `Abdullah ibn Qa`ud

  9. #9

    Lightbulb Treaties With The Non-Muslims: Is it Allegiance? Is it Apostasy?

    One of the main reasons for revolt, whether verbal or physical, against the Rulers of the Muslims by the modern-day Jihādist sects is their claim that the Rulers make agreements with the non-Muslims that weaken the Ummah and that the rulers invite the non-Muslims armies into Muslim lands and that all of this constitutes apostasy.

    This is another proof of their hastiness in declaring other Muslims to be unbelievers and highlights their ignorance of the life of the Messenger Muhammad (salallaahu ‘alaihi wassallam) and the teachings of his disciples. Let us here begin with that which occurred in the lifetime of the Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihi wassallam) when he made a treaty with the pagans of Mecca [1]:

    Read the full article:


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